• noice

    This is meaningless now because it’s from before the UK referendum. Mood may well have shifted, in various directions.

    • pisher

      Data isn’t meaningless, you just have to understand there’s always more data coming down the pike.

      I think as long as Germany stays in, the EU will endure. Without Germany, hard to see how it continues. Germany puts more money into it than anyone else (much more than the UK). But it’s also the dominant manufacturing power in the region, and manufacturers need markets.

      There’s a widespread discontent among many member nations about the way they can’t make individual deals with outside corporations anymore. There’s a lot of resentment towards Brussels. Obviosuly Belgium thinks there’s absolutely no problem with Brussels. Yet even there, almost a third want to leave.

      The English made a mistake, and it’s going to cost them. But the EU does need to pay attention to this, and find ways to remake itself. There’s no such nationality as “European.” There’s never going to be a United States of Europe. It’s not the same thing. It never could have been. Hell, we all speak the same language, have a much longer shared history, and it’s been hard holding our Union together at times.

      What’s truly meaningless is the impact this has on the November election here. It doesn’t have any. We’re not holding a non-binding referendum. We’re deciding between a superbly qualified woman and an utterly worthless man.

      • noice

        They can make any deals they want, they just all have to play by the same rules. And since the Treaty of Lisbon, the rules are amended via qualified majority, which means there are fewer avenues for obstruction because of fewer areas of required unanimity.

        There is a similarity with the US “states’ rights” concept and talking point. The central authority is oppressing us with its common sense, but we are all special snowflakes. Waah, waah.

        • pisher

          A lot of workers don’t like the global trade deals. They want protectionism, they want jobs in their country to remain there no matter what.

          But they also want other countries to buy their stuff, and they don’t mind jobs from other countries coming where they are.

          And instead of getting mad at the multinationals, they get mad at the politicians, because the politicians have to actually care what they think, and the multinationals don’t.

          • noice

            Yes. And the multinationals get their way either way.

          • pisher

            Until we stop letting them divide and conquer us. Yeah.

            As far as they’re concerned, nation-states are irrelevant artifacts of the past. But only strong governments can hope to hold them in check. And we’re doing ourselves no favor by weakening government’s power to serve as a check on corporations.

        • pisher

          A lot of workers don’t like the global trade deals. They want protectionism, they want jobs in their country to remain there no matter what.

          But they also want other countries to buy their stuff, and they don’t mind jobs from other countries coming where they are.

          And instead of getting mad at the multinationals, they get mad at the politicians, because the politicians have to actually care what they think, and the multinationals don’t.

      • noice

        They can make any deals they want, they just all have to play by the same rules. And since the Treaty of Lisbon, the rules are amended via qualified majority, which means there are fewer avenues for obstruction because of fewer areas of required unanimity.

        There is a similarity with the US “states’ rights” concept and talking point. The central authority is oppressing us with its common sense, but we are all special snowflakes. Waah, waah.

  • noice

    This is meaningless now because it’s from before the UK referendum. Mood may well have shifted, in various directions.

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